tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post1691484676901130663..comments2023-09-05T04:09:28.653-04:00Comments on Sacred Space: Which fights will seem petty in 500 years?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-40988434870628525742008-02-27T17:12:00.000-05:002008-02-27T17:12:00.000-05:00In the past men were more likely to rise at a tabl...In the past men were more likely to rise at a table when a woman approached; yet, today, women have more rights and power than ever. Parroting the politeness of parents and clergy is shallow. It may make us feel good and do no harm other than masking what we really believe, but it doesn't feed babies and prevent the burning of witches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-1448494873947337902008-02-27T09:49:00.000-05:002008-02-27T09:49:00.000-05:00pornstudent wrote, "Opening a door for a person be...pornstudent wrote, "Opening a door for a person because she is a woman is condescending because it implies women aren't capable of opening doors themselves. To insist on doing so, even though it might offend women, is unloving and petty."<BR/><BR/>How wrong you are.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-11318176347594072892008-02-27T09:48:00.000-05:002008-02-27T09:48:00.000-05:00[I gotta learn to hit the preview key more often.]...[I gotta learn to hit the preview key more often.]<BR/><BR/>Laura wrote, "But what I don't understand is why those same "good manners" and "respect" disappear when it's time for her to collect her paycheck. Things have improved, but they're still not equal when it comes to equal pay for equal work."<BR/><BR/>I can't disagree with you there. No matter how many formulas HR comes up with for calculating pay rate, there's always going to be the intangible factor factored in somewhere. Unfortunately, since most of the purse-strings in this country are controlled by the good ol' boys network, women are going to get the short end of the stick more often than not. It's not right, but it's a nasty fact that can only be changed with a change in attitudes. Laws will never achieve the goal of equal pay for equal work.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-88145380628869930842008-02-27T09:46:00.001-05:002008-02-27T09:46:00.001-05:00Opening a door for a person because she is a woman...Opening a door for a person because she is a woman is condescending because it implies women aren't capable of opening doors themselves. To insist on doing so, even though it might offend women, is unloving and petty.<BR/><BR/>Discrimination against homosexuals and women is a barometer of our progress, or lack of. It is encouraging that there are laws making sex and sexual preference discrimination illegal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-194929492791365192008-02-27T09:46:00.000-05:002008-02-27T09:46:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-13432895371838970492008-02-27T08:36:00.000-05:002008-02-27T08:36:00.000-05:00By "discrimination," I don't mean the act of disti...By "discrimination," I don't mean the act of distinguishing. I'm using the other definition: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Prejudice (an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason) may, or may not, lead to discrimination. Even if it is, as you say, the essence of man, is that the criteria we should use to justify it? <BR/>There's certainly nothing wrong with holding doors open for a woman if it's done out of respect and is a display of good manners. But what I don't understand is why those same "good manners" and "respect" disappear when it's time for her to collect her paycheck. Things have improved, but they're still not equal when it comes to equal pay for equal work.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992596486347896020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-17004398449860249202008-02-27T07:56:00.000-05:002008-02-27T07:56:00.000-05:00Anonymous wrote, "Well I differ on that, I would n...Anonymous wrote, "Well I differ on that, I would never treat a woman as a man."<BR/><BR/>Bravo! I agree wholeheartedly. My parents taught me to treat women with utmost respect and courtesy. That does not precluide treating them as equals. I'm sorry if it "offends" some women, but I will continue to a) open a door (or hold a door open) for a woman, b) rise at a table when a woman approaches or gets up, c) offer to help a woman with a heavy load, etc.<BR/><BR/>Women are deserving of the same "opportunities" as are men (secularly speaking, of course), and vice versa. Note the word "opportunities." Men and woman should be judged on meeting the criteria for the job and on the ability to perform the job.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-8164154830908383272008-02-27T06:13:00.000-05:002008-02-27T06:13:00.000-05:00Dearest Laura,Discrimination will never be laid to...Dearest Laura,<BR/><BR/>Discrimination will never be laid to rest, it is the very essence of man.<BR/><BR/>One discriminates between housing, flowers, food, weather, clothing, and, as you notice, people. Perhaps you would prefer mankind not be so discriminating, but then how would you choose with whom to go out with, or marry or to father your children, if you do not discriminate among the choices.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you mean prejudice, or something to do with preconceived ideas. Perhaps you mean you wish people treated women equally and homosexuals indifferently. But for women, do you mean the same? <BR/><BR/>Well I differ on that, I would never treat a woman as a man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-47908618061172819782008-02-26T18:48:00.000-05:002008-02-26T18:48:00.000-05:00I, for one, can't wait until discrimination agains...I, for one, can't wait until discrimination against homosexuals and women is finally laid to rest.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992596486347896020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-68941439099478833452008-02-26T18:28:00.000-05:002008-02-26T18:28:00.000-05:00Iztok, as you profess Atheism/Agnosticism, you sho...Iztok, as you profess Atheism/Agnosticism, you should understand that religions, of whatever stripe, reflect their culture. The Christian/Catholic religion has is basis on a culture 2000 years old. <BR/><BR/>To argue the rules of the church, and whether it can change them or not, when obviously it can, it rather a waste of time. Certainly it can. Any organization can. It then becomes a new organization, perhaps with the same name, but new none the less.<BR/><BR/>Churches are regularly changing their rules. Currently in Western Civilization, women and homosexuals have new standing in the church. Other things have changed.<BR/><BR/>None the less, those who believe in the old ways are not wrong. Neither are you wrong. You and they, and many others, have differing beliefs. To argue as if your's is the only way is obtuse. It is obviously not the only way and, I suggest, Atheism, is not a good way for the majority of people. I say this, when I am an Athiest. There is no Agnosticism with me. Still, I leave those who believe otherwise to their beliefs, and encourage them to practice. <BR/><BR/>Everyone needs something to believe in. For most it is outside themselves.<BR/><BR/>For me, I believe it's time for a beer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-49926937652240335042008-02-26T18:27:00.000-05:002008-02-26T18:27:00.000-05:00An interesting article on religion:http://www.thea...An interesting article on religion:<BR/><BR/>http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/secularism<BR/><BR/>Graph is also very interesting:<BR/><BR/>http://www.theatlantic.com/images/issues/200803/secular-graph.gif<BR/><BR/>It practically speaks for itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-71383321850324363132008-02-26T16:01:00.000-05:002008-02-26T16:01:00.000-05:00Danbo, you said RCC doesn't have authority to chan...Danbo, you said RCC doesn't have authority to change fact that women can become priests. I assumed that is only so because of scriptural text. I guess you are referring to some other thing preventing RCC to have authority to change such thing?<BR/><BR/>"you should focus more on how your culture deals with women"<BR/><BR/>Which culture you have in mind? As an atheist agnostic I would say that we pose no artificial limitations (other than those of natural limitations) on women. In fact some of most prominent atheists, agnostics, freethinkers are women. They are certainly ahead when it comes to morality, compassion, and love. Or are you talking about Slavic culture? Mostly there is little to no discrepancies when it comes to treating women vs. man. Only time I've noticed significant discrepancy was when religion was involved (RCC as predominant religion in my country of origin, Orthodox as predominant religion further south, or Islam as predominant religion of those in between and immigrants) when it comes to discrepancy of what men can/are allowed to do vs. what women can/are allowed to do.<BR/><BR/>So which culture you have in mind?<BR/><BR/>Subterfuge? Let me ask you, do you think that presenting promises w/o any accountability to (not) deliver or any real way to prove them as true is not a subterfuge? <BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/> IztokAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-44623396157437019932008-02-26T15:55:00.000-05:002008-02-26T15:55:00.000-05:00So I went back and read Danbo59's posts. Sure enou...So I went back and read Danbo59's posts. Sure enough, he writes only of what the Catholic Church believes and why. He does not quote scripture.<BR/><BR/>Iztok: if your wish is to change the church, you are wasting your time in this place. If your wish is to show your disbelief or antagonism towards those with beliefs other than yours, you are successful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-74236573068940200642008-02-26T11:37:00.000-05:002008-02-26T11:37:00.000-05:00Iztok wrote, "Dambo claims that RCC is not able to...Iztok wrote, "Dambo claims that RCC is not able to change rules because of scripture."<BR/><BR/>I don't know what he's reading, but it's not my comments. I've never said anything close to this.<BR/><BR/>Iztok, instead of putting words in other people's mouths (i.e., posts) in the hopes that forum readers won't check to see what was really said, you should focus more on how your culture deals with women. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!<BR/><BR/>Iztok, it's sad -- but your arguments involve nothing save deception and intentional misdirection. I prefer to converse with others on this board who engage in discussion as opposed to subterfuge.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-52285225626377130942008-02-26T10:33:00.000-05:002008-02-26T10:33:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-71694171863355159942008-02-26T10:24:00.000-05:002008-02-26T10:24:00.000-05:00"Danbo59 makes the argument; the Catholic Church h..."Danbo59 makes the argument; the Catholic Church has rules, which it follows. Iztok makes the argument; why doesn't the Catholic Church change its rules to suit me. Did I miss anything?"<BR/><BR/>"Nope. You got it. :)"<BR/><BR/>You both missed the point. Dambo claims that RCC is not able to change rules because of scripture. When demonstrated that this is false obviously argument Danbo has fails. So we have to conclude that RCC doesn't change rules because of it's sexist nature not because it is not allowed to change rules but because it wishes not to.<BR/><BR/>RCC can and does make and change the rules outside of the scripture it just chooses not to allow women certain privileges otherwise secular society does. You can't talk about morals when you treat your own women as a second class citizens.<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/> IztokAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-21003737664244282332008-02-26T08:34:00.000-05:002008-02-26T08:34:00.000-05:00Iztok repeated, "Now why again women can't become ...Iztok repeated, "Now why again women can't become cardinals? (I know, it is a sexist decision of pope.)"<BR/><BR/>Reread above posts for answer.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-23163943187219452702008-02-26T08:28:00.000-05:002008-02-26T08:28:00.000-05:00Anonymous wrote, "Danbo59 makes the argument; the ...Anonymous wrote, "Danbo59 makes the argument; the Catholic Church has rules, which it follows. Iztok makes the argument; why doesn't the Catholic Church change its rules to suit me. Did I miss anything?"<BR/><BR/>Nope. You got it. :)Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-56494705835129401802008-02-26T07:49:00.000-05:002008-02-26T07:49:00.000-05:00Danbo59 vs Iztok:Round 2008Danbo59 makes the argum...Danbo59 vs Iztok:<BR/>Round 2008<BR/><BR/>Danbo59 makes the argument; the Catholic Church has rules, which it follows.<BR/><BR/>Iztok makes the argument; why doesn't the Catholic Church change its rules to suit me.<BR/><BR/>Did I miss anything?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-78305754397545236392008-02-25T18:44:00.000-05:002008-02-25T18:44:00.000-05:00A lot of the last few comments just make me shake ...A lot of the last few comments just make me shake my head and shrug my shoulders. None of this seems to be the word of God. This is all too human logic. It's the logic of men who wanted to have power. None of this seems to be addressing how we, mankind, can work together to answer the higher callings of faith and spirituality. Instead it's a bunch of rules. The other guys have rules, too. And then people start hating each other because 'my rules are right and yours aren't.' <BR/><BR/>This is one of the many reasons I just became so disenfranchised with religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-28647764218559400742008-02-25T18:07:00.000-05:002008-02-25T18:07:00.000-05:00Danbo, so Pope can make all sorts of rules for car...Danbo, so Pope can make all sorts of rules for cardinals. Since there is no scriptural support for them technically anyone who pope decides can be made cardinal. Canon law can me changed.<BR/><BR/>So technically pope decided to set up limitations for cardinals not the scripture so pope could change the restrictions.<BR/><BR/>Now why again women can't become cardinals? (I know, it is a sexist decision of pope.)<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/> IztokAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-25870468202799689522008-02-25T17:39:00.000-05:002008-02-25T17:39:00.000-05:00So God is a guy? I mean, Jesus may be an “only” So...So God is a guy? I mean, Jesus may be an “only” Son, begotten (not made), of one substance with God, but are you telling me that the same magnificent and all-powerful God can’t manifest Himself to us as an only begotten Daughter, also of same substance? (God in four persons, Holy Quadruplets). <BR/><BR/>Are you sure He hasn’t already manifested in womanly form, but the Men’s Club at the Vatican were caught napping? Or maybe they just felt threatened.<BR/><BR/>Goes back to what I said a few blogs ago about the problem with religion - it’s too often cast in concrete. Someone makes some rules to serve their own purposes, and we literally play hell trying to change them. When a religion takes an immutable stand, it in effect says that God is dead. A living God is a changing God. <BR/><BR/>When God dies, that’s when folks start leaving “The Church”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-31288368169025162012008-02-25T15:31:00.000-05:002008-02-25T15:31:00.000-05:00[Having trouble with typos today. Sorry!]Technica...[Having trouble with typos today. Sorry!]<BR/><BR/>Technically, in the Catholic Church a lay person can be appointed as a Cardinal (or even elected Pope), but that lay person would have to be ordained a decon, priest and bishop <B>prior</B> to being installed in their new office to be in compliance with Canon Law 351.<BR/><BR/>Women cannot be ordained and therefore cannot be appointed as Cardinals.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-61953958353720565452008-02-25T15:30:00.000-05:002008-02-25T15:30:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-40530371566999858592008-02-25T15:18:00.000-05:002008-02-25T15:18:00.000-05:00Actually, to expound on what I said last, Canon La...Actually, to expound on what I said last, Canon Law [351] states that all Cardinals shall be Bishops at the time of their appointment. An exception may be made [in naming a priest to be a Cardinal] only with the special dispensation of the Pope.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.com