tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post5857208249774201122..comments2023-09-05T04:09:28.653-04:00Comments on Sacred Space: Rising every time we fallUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-78327288668116565042008-08-16T10:13:00.000-04:002008-08-16T10:13:00.000-04:00"As long as they don't get tax benefits nor tax pa..."As long as they don't get tax benefits nor tax payers money and don't push their believes on others in any way (i.e. killing etc...) I don't care what they do in private."<BR/><BR/>Yep, I agree with that, too. I've no problem what folks do in their own household, their privately-supported school or in their church, as long as you are not breaking secular laws (i.e., sacrificing virgins to the volcano, or forcing 13-year-olds into polygamous marriages). <BR/><BR/>Of course, in a sense, our individual income tax laws often subsidize or benefit many households with public tax money. The Earned Income Credit and additional Child Tax Credit come to mind. So we may have to rethink that restriction.<BR/><BR/>"I also don't like those who come knocking on my doors now and then asking me if I've heard 'the good news'... ".<BR/><BR/>I also find that practice very annoying, if not downright aggressive. A few months ago, when the recent upswing in neighborhood crime was in the news, I asked a city councilman why there is no local ordinance to ban door-to-door solicitation, period. (Would-be tree surgeons, gutter and siding salesmen and painters also are intrusive.) <BR/><BR/>My reasoning was that door-to-door solicitation is also a great way for a thief to scope out who is usually home or not, so why not <BR/>eliminate that practice?<BR/><BR/>The city attorney's office emailed me that such "Green River" ordinances are usually unenforceable for Constitutional reasons. Apparently we'd be curtailing rights related to freedom of speech, among others in the Bill of Rights.<BR/><BR/>They suggested I put a "No Soliciting or Trespassing" sign on my lawn. Not that it would deter the bold, but that I'd have a better chance of having them prosecuted for trespassing. Yep, all I'd have to do would be to stay home 24 X 7 to look for violators, call police, and hope they came in time to nab the intruder.<BR/><BR/>So, what I suggest instead is waiting for the "missionary" to get a short way into his or her spiel so one can verify the ourpose of their visit, then invite them inside, have them sit down, then launch into a wild-eyed tirade:<BR/><BR/>"I'm glad you. Let me tell you about the Great God Morlock and how my sacrifices to him are saving the world!!! Have you accepted Morlock? No, No, No. Come back here and pray with me to Morlock!"<BR/><BR/>Should work every time and provide good, clean entertainment as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-41202061639548108502008-08-16T10:08:00.000-04:002008-08-16T10:08:00.000-04:00But you don't have bingo.But you don't have bingo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-40667365597135030862008-08-16T09:28:00.000-04:002008-08-16T09:28:00.000-04:00bob: "Absence of evidence also is evidence of deus...bob: "Absence of evidence also is evidence of deus absconditus, no?"<BR/><BR/>Sure it can be. But since this simply says you can't know ANYTHING about god then why claim to know anything? If you take this kind of stance, then I agree. Nothing can be known or claimed about such an entity so anyone claiming anything is just plain making things up.<BR/><BR/>Which is my stance at the beginning anyway.Iztokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990010837424705188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-83538812634091601762008-08-16T09:23:00.000-04:002008-08-16T09:23:00.000-04:00"they have the right, protected by the Constitutio..."they have the right, protected by the Constitution, to discriminate as they see fit according to how they view mankind’s relationship to their view of God."<BR/><BR/>As long as they don't get tax benefits nor tax payers money and don't push their believes on others in any way (i.e. killing etc...) I don't care what they do in private.<BR/><BR/>Once they receive public funds, like bigoted Boy Scouts of America, then they should make a decision. Either stop discriminating or stop asking for taxpayers money and benefits.<BR/><BR/>I also don't like those who come knocking on my doors now and then asking me if I've heard "the good news" or crap like that. If it is so important, give me your address and I will stop by when it is convenient to me.Iztokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990010837424705188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-37496067428801879812008-08-16T09:10:00.000-04:002008-08-16T09:10:00.000-04:00Danbo: "There is a difference between the alcoholi...Danbo: "There is a difference between the alcoholic and alcoholism; between the murderer and the murder; between the homosexual and homosexuality. The first are people, the second are behaviors."<BR/><BR/>I agree. As I said, Christians are OK in my book. It is Christianity that is the issue. Nothing against people, just behaviors. Religion is simply not natural. If God existed and wanted us to be theists we would be born as such, when in fact we are born atheist. On the other hand homosexuality is not learned (as religion is), people are born that way.Iztokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990010837424705188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-64511248850284223552008-08-15T14:34:00.000-04:002008-08-15T14:34:00.000-04:00Danbo59,I am sorry. I assumed wrong. I "read" into...Danbo59,<BR/><BR/>I am sorry. I assumed wrong. I "read" into your second paragraph an implication that was not there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-63146454668649565312008-08-15T13:20:00.000-04:002008-08-15T13:20:00.000-04:00The right to marry is an equal-protection right. ...The right to marry is an equal-protection right. D'oh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-27371344203858928912008-08-15T13:12:00.000-04:002008-08-15T13:12:00.000-04:00The heretic said, "In secular matters, homosexuals...The heretic said, "In secular matters, homosexuals deserve equal protection and consideration under the law."<BR/><BR/>Agreed, wholeheartedly.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-90855636087323423082008-08-15T11:54:00.000-04:002008-08-15T11:54:00.000-04:00Danbo,You're correct. We certainly have freedom of...Danbo,<BR/><BR/>You're correct. We certainly have freedom of speech in this nation. One can condemn homosexuality all they want in either the secular or sectarian worlds. What I meant to state was:<BR/><BR/>In secular matters, homosexuals deserve equal protection and consideration under the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-50080950616119762462008-08-15T11:42:00.000-04:002008-08-15T11:42:00.000-04:00Absence of evidence also is evidence of deus absco...Absence of evidence also is evidence of deus absconditus, no? If you believe in that, you could really get Danbo's goat. Try it and see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-66405570933956762752008-08-15T10:27:00.000-04:002008-08-15T10:27:00.000-04:00J wrote, "But I notice you prefaced your comment w...J wrote, "But I notice you prefaced your comment with an aboslute conviction that ONLY your view is correct and others are welcome to see it your way or be wrong.(I assume)"<BR/><BR/>Not only do you assume incorrectly, you are mistaken. I don't recall <I>saying</I> anywhere that <B>only</B> my view is the correct one. I can <I>believe</I> that it is, but I haven't <I>said/written</I> that.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-47661750438819203432008-08-15T10:24:00.000-04:002008-08-15T10:24:00.000-04:00The Heretic wrote, "Any condemnation of sexual ori...The Heretic wrote, "Any condemnation of sexual orientation is not only despicable; it should be illegal."<BR/><BR/>Disagree! <I>Condemnation</I> should be illegal?!?!?!? No way. What are you advocating now, the <I>Thought Police</I>?<BR/><BR/>Dicrimination based upon sexual orientation should be illegal, though, where it regards Constitutional rights. [Note -- No one has a Constitutional right to eat/smoke/be-free-from-smoke at a private restaurant/bar.]Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-84924211023260245462008-08-15T09:47:00.000-04:002008-08-15T09:47:00.000-04:00Heretic,I appreciate the information about the bri...Heretic,<BR/><BR/>I appreciate the information about the bridge building. <BR/><BR/>And though I might feel uneasy about it I can recognize that in religious communities that excluding behaviors in their commmunities they find objectionable is their right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-38068147616762672562008-08-15T09:42:00.000-04:002008-08-15T09:42:00.000-04:00Danbo59I agree that a person,a human being should ...Danbo59<BR/><BR/>I agree that a person,a human being should be respected apart from their behavior but should be judged appropiately for their behaviors if that behavior causes harm to others.<BR/><BR/>But I notice you prefaced your comment with an aboslute conviction that ONLY your view is correct and others are welcome to see it your way or be wrong.(I assume)<BR/><BR/>I think we can find commonality on the first part about respect for the individual as a human but your second part about knowing that homosexuality is wrong from God's standpoint is still a subjective position that other than your very personal beliefs,have as far as I know,no objective or outside way to test as valid. A strong bias against such behavior may feel viscerally correct and "normal" but that does not validate it as an absolute truth. <BR/><BR/>You are using a subjective yardstick that is not common or accepted to all of us as humans beings so it lacks(in my view) universal(worldwide) recognition as true for all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-11999291250484653762008-08-15T09:23:00.000-04:002008-08-15T09:23:00.000-04:00I take a mixed stand on the homosexuality issue ra...I take a mixed stand on the homosexuality issue raised earlier.<BR/><BR/>In secular matters, such as in our every day life under government, I feel as Iztok does. All are, or should be, equal under the law. Any condemnation of sexual orientation is not only despicable; it should be illegal.<BR/><BR/>But in sectarian matters, like it or not, that same condemnation is and should be permissible. I may not personally agree with religious groups who take that stand, but they have the right, protected by the Constitution, to discriminate as they see fit according to how they view mankind’s relationship to their view of God.<BR/><BR/>The problem arises when we attempt to mix secular and sectarian.<BR/><BR/>As regards J.’s wish for all who comment here to find commonality and get past the polarization that often turns into quite a battle, this may not be the place where that is possible.<BR/><BR/>But I noticed in today’s Observer (Local section, page 2B), that Charlotte’s Gay and Lesbian community announced its annual service awards. Those will go not only to gay advocates, but to such notable local religious leaders as Stephen Shoemaker, senior minister at Myers Park Baptist Church, and Rabbi Judy Schindler of Temple Beth-El. Those two are the very first recipients of the group’s “Bridge Builder” Award, given to “straight” allies who are honored for improving life in the ENTIRE community.<BR/><BR/>J., here is evidence that folks can reach that common ground.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-272033931178366352008-08-15T09:01:00.000-04:002008-08-15T09:01:00.000-04:00J wrote, "To try to find a way to get past your di...J wrote, "To try to find a way to get past your differences and biases and find at least some agreement(commonality) on something (like homosexuality for instance) instead of non-productive polarization and building walls of seperation."<BR/><BR/>They're welcome to adopt my attitude toward homosexuality at any time. <BR/><BR/>For the thousandth time -- <I>homosexual<B>ity</B></I> is wrong, it is a sin, it is contrary to God's plan for creation. <I>Homosexual<B>s</B></I> are God's children; therefore, they are to be treated with love, compassion and respect due every other child of God. But it does not justify their actions.<BR/><BR/>There is a difference between the alcoholic and alcoholism; between the murderer and the murder; between the homosexual and homosexuality. The first are people, the second are behaviors.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-26719381425448197672008-08-15T08:16:00.000-04:002008-08-15T08:16:00.000-04:00iztok,I agree with you that realizing that there i...iztok,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that realizing that there is more unknown about the universe than we think we know for certain can hopefully inspire a expanded sense of humility and awe. <BR/><BR/>I feel, as you may also, that it is hubris to the infinite degree to believe that an observable universe which is at least 14 billion light years in time/space dimensions was just put here for humans.<BR/><BR/>I recognize though that when the conditions our lives here on this planet so overwelm us, it is hard to see "outside" to the larger context of the universe. It is not something that probably most of us on this planet think about daily because it is not part of our everyday experiences.<BR/><BR/>However this larger context is real and I believe we all should try to consider this when we are making definitions about the totality of existence,belief and philosophy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-9226109476008006332008-08-15T03:35:00.000-04:002008-08-15T03:35:00.000-04:00Bob: "So what's the matter with you that you can't...Bob: "So what's the matter with you that you can't make up your mind?"<BR/><BR/>What is the matter? There is simply not enough evidence for any. Absence of evidence seems to point to evidence of absence. When no evidence is present to substantiate something I find it more intellectually honest to say so then to do wishful thinking and hope something is there. I don't find any issues with no afterlife. Life here is what I am looking forward every day and work for every day. I would rather do the work then lose time praying, at least one is sure that results of hard work can be seen. I am not arrogant to think that there is a being that created this waste universe just for us. Universe humbles me to think that as humans we are just insignificant speck in time and space.Iztokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990010837424705188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-83375147234073006652008-08-14T20:12:00.000-04:002008-08-14T20:12:00.000-04:00So what's the matter with you that you can't make ...So what's the matter with you that you can't make up your mind?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-78921939020355251962008-08-14T18:51:00.000-04:002008-08-14T18:51:00.000-04:00j. answer is simple. Danbo, Gamecock and others ar...j. answer is simple. Danbo, Gamecock and others are all atheists when it comes to hundreds of other gods. Basically the difference is that I just don't pick and choose.Iztokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990010837424705188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-44511105431375638262008-08-14T17:46:00.000-04:002008-08-14T17:46:00.000-04:00Danbo59To try to find a way to get past your diffe...Danbo59<BR/><BR/>To try to find a way to get past your differences and biases and find at least some agreement(commonality) on something (like homosexuality for instance) instead of non-productive polarization and building walls of seperation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-3414326212890620202008-08-14T14:38:00.000-04:002008-08-14T14:38:00.000-04:00J said, "As a excercise in trying to find commonal...J said, "As a excercise in trying to find commonality what could Danbo59,Gamcock and Iztok do in this forum discussion to reconcile their seemingly disparate philosophical positions? Any ideas?"<BR/><BR/>Reconcile them to <I>what</I>?Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-80763869645766925242008-08-14T10:33:00.000-04:002008-08-14T10:33:00.000-04:00As a excercise in trying to find commonality what ...As a excercise in trying to find commonality what could Danbo59,Gamcock and Iztok do in this forum discussion to reconcile their seemingly disparate philosophical positions? Any ideas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-60283989519811958022008-08-14T09:27:00.000-04:002008-08-14T09:27:00.000-04:00Anon at 11:32 8/13/08 said "Gamecock teaches that ...Anon at 11:32 8/13/08 said "Gamecock teaches that we should let God be God, and he is smarter than I am."<BR/><BR/>I know Gamecock is smarter than me, but how did you learn that he's smarter than you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2954933932670299796.post-67008268538641167532008-08-14T08:17:00.000-04:002008-08-14T08:17:00.000-04:00Izzie wrote, "I personally think that any condemna...Izzie wrote, "I personally think that any condemnation of homosexuality is despicable. It is not their choosing nor is it illness."<BR/><BR/>Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.Catholic101https://www.blogger.com/profile/09155134213650587054noreply@blogger.com