Monday, March 3, 2008

God as vending machine

"That was an answer to prayer."


How many times have you heard that phrase when something wonderful happened? An illness abates or a check arrives in the mail, and ... Yes! God heard the request. God answered.

But what if the illness worsens or the bank forecloses? What if, despite fervent prayers, the plea is denied? To some, this is proof that God doesn't exist, or can't act, or doesn't care. Surely it couldn't be that the answer is "No."

Doug Mendenhall, author of "How Jesus Ended up in the Food Court: 77 Devotional Thoughts You Never Thought About Before," wrote an entertaining column in the Huntsville (Ala.) Times last week on what would happen if the only possible answer were "Yes," even just for one morning. "Let’s say God’s in a quirky mood, like when he created the platypus or nudged the Appalachian State football team past Michigan," Mendenhall begins. "Let’s say he decides, for a few hours only, to drastically relax his standards on miracles. For this one morning, the new protocol is boiled down to:
"1. Requester must believe in God.
"2. Requester must have honorable motives.
"3. Request granted.
"So at 6 a.m. on this special morning, unannounced, God lets the miracles begin..."

I'll let you read the results for yourself.

We like to think that God is a vending machine. Insert a few quarters' worth of prayer into the slot, push the right buttons and the miracle of choice will pop out. My will be done.

As gratifying as that would be, it sells prayer short. Because the true miracle of prayer is that by spending time in God's presence -- opening our hearts and mind to a relationship, not a machine -- we are transformed.

Thoughts?

71 comments:

Edie said...

Forgive me any discrepancies, this is from memory, but: There's a Muslim story that says that God (Allah) wanted Muslims to pray a really large number of times a day. When Mohammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem, he was able to intervene and negotiate the number down to five times a day. (Keep in mind, the story is much more complicated than that, but in the interest of space ...)

As a Christian who prays whenever I feel like talking to God, the five times a day quota (especially the Dawn one) seems a bit excessive, but I think the point is to always have God on your mind and be mindful of him.

Muslims also say 'bismallah' (In God's Name) before doing anything; driving a car, taking an exam, lifting a child to hold in their arms). This way they are also always mindful of God in all they do.

This is just to say I think you're right, the benefit of prayer is not the outcome, but the time spent in the presence of God and in peace.

Anonymous said...

Why is Charlotte so obsessed with religion? When will we move on as a city? When will we accept other people, including gays, who are "different" than us? In my experience, we can't with so many Jesus freaks everywhere. We might be becoming a larger city, but we still have a small town mentality, and it doesn't work.

jennamom said...

Anonymous @ 6:52, what the heck did that have to do with this blog post? If this isn't something you're interested in, feel free not to read.

Jane, I was just going to say that I don't remember where I heard this, but I've always liked the advice "Don't pray for things or outcomes that you want. Pray for strength, wisdom, courage, patience, guidance." God always gives me those when I need them.

Anonymous said...

I am sure that results of the prayer to a milk jug would have exact same result on the outcome of the game or anything else in life.

If God always answers the prayers and answers can be "yes", "no", "not now" then there is really no different then not praying at all as same options are there.

In fact latest studies show that prayer for recovery of others have no effect in comparison to a group not being prayed for and adverse effect when people know they've been prayed for (they did worse then those who didn't know or were not prayed for).

Or to sum up what prayer really is: wishful thinking

Sincerely,
Iztok

pornstudent said...

The Bible leads Christians to believe that miracles such as healing should be common.

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." - Mark 11:24

"He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness." - Matthew 10:1

"The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them." - Acts 15:12

Jane - "the true miracle of prayer is that by spending time in God's presence... we are transformed."

Having a quiet time, meditating on the reality of life and being transformed isn't a miracle at all. You're right, though, change isn't as easy as putting coins in a vending machine. We have to put in the time and effort, like playing an instrument and getting in shape.

Danbo59 said...

Jane, you are right on the money. Prayer is not a trip to the vending machine. Prayer is a method of communing with God, a method that is not meant to be used only when we want something.

Prayer should be regular, it should be prone to spontaneity, it should be personal. It should be a two-way conversation. We should strive to hear God in prayer.

When we drop our pretentious egotistic nature in prayer, it is easier to hear what God wants us to do and hear how He is responding to us. It is when we open our hearts to God and place ourselves in the position of the lowest of Creation that we are most receptive to His message.

True, God does answer all prayer. The answer is not always, "Yes." Faith in God, that He knows what is best for us, must be maintained at all times. God may choose to give us a cross to bear, but it will never be more than we can handle. After all, God gave His own Son the most difficult Cross to bear -- that of taking on the whole world's sins and redeeming us in the eyes of God. Why should we not expect -- each of us -- to carry our own "little Crosses?"

Miracles occur every day, just look around. I've been the recipient of countless miracles in my life. The miracle of God's love surrounds us, envelopes us, permeates us. In that it does, we must strive to be a lens which focuses God's love onto others. Here is where Jesus and the Holy Spirit come into play -- they are the tools of our focusing God's love to others.

God is not a vending machine. We already are in possession of "the goods." All we need is the faith and courage to unwrap those goods and accept them for what they are -- part of God's plan that we should live our lives as a means of giving glory to God -- always!

God bless us all!

Anonymous said...

"Miracles occur every day, just look around."

Miracles are only miracles if defy laws of nature. You seriously believe that laws of nature were suspended at certain time and place just for you? In your opinion God has a perfect plan where all is clear and defined then because you pray to him he changes his plan? Talking about being self absorbed.

Sincerely,
Iztok

Danbo59 said...

Miracles occur every day! Just look around.

Alas, some -- by choice -- cannot see the forest for the trees.

Jesus cured the blind man so as to proclaim the glory of God. Yet when the Pharisees were presented with the facts, they refused to believe in the message.

The blind man returned to Jesus and accepted Him as the Messiah, God's chosen Son. The Pharisees concluded that Jesus could not be from God because he healed the man on the Sabbath.

The "blind" saw -- yet the "sighted" could not -- the glory of God.

Miracles occur every day! Just look around. Miracles don't defy the laws of nature, they expand upon them. All nature is, in itself, a miracle.

I pray that we all can have the "sight" of the blind man.

Anonymous said...

I was a CATHOLIC for 30 some years and went to Catholic Schools from 1 to 12th grade and it was a good experience; I was glad they stopped the going to Church everyday for the first eight years ; I think People burn out with to much church to long, like listening to someone speak to long at a seminar; Church Burn out is a common problem and they need to do skits not just hear words; They need low cost trips to all of the MIDDLE EAST includint OLD BABYLON; Oh just remember Americans we have to pay for the clean up in IRAQ burned buildings, bombed cars ect... so dont forget we will be there in a financial mode for twenty years. So its time to segregate Shites from Sunnis and Kurds into three States. Religion is segregated in the Middle east and is accepted.

Anonymous said...

Show me miracles danbo? Show me something that we can't and will never be able to explain in any other way then attribute it to a miracle.

Mind you, we do not have ANY evidence that Jesus really did heal the blind. Yes Bible says so, but as pointed out, Bible also says that earth is a circle (not a sphere) as well. Bible is heavily modified (passages of Jesus raising from dead in Mark were added much later for example).

Where are these miracles today? I don't see any human growing his/her limbs back. In fact before huge progress in science God apparently did a poor job healing people. Thanks to science we have huge increase in our age (when God was doing his job alone two thousand years ago in the middle east people died at fairly young age from diseases that are perfectly curable today), our health care system is much better then ever. We actually understand what stars are, we know that Sun can't stand still (despite Bible telling us so).

No, no miracles present (or in the past).

Sincerely,
Iztok

Anonymous said...

They say in HEAVEN all Religions will be segregated; Catholics will be in one area , Jews another close to them and United Methodist, Baptists and Muslims and so on and so forth. I was in the Methodists for a while and Catholic for a long while and went Jehovah witness and Morman for a while; I wonder if I'll get a all Religion pass.

Danbo59 said...

God answering prayers need not change His perfect plan of Creation.

For example --

a) My plan is to retire when I am 65.
b) Tomorrow, my son begs me to lend him my car, whereas I planned to go down into Charlotte and do some shopping.
c) I relent and lend him the car.
d) My plan -- unchanged.
e) His "prayer" -- answered.

Ah, how simple the answers to those who think too hard of a question.

The definition of self-centered is someone who puts themseves before all other concerns.

A person who prays in faith asks God for something for themself or for someone else (I bet you that last item never occurred to the truly self-centered), but the faithful also are resigned to accept the fact that whatever the answer, God knows best (as opposed to the self-centered man, who thinks they know best). That's not self-centered, that's humility. Even Jesus displayed humilty --

"My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will." -- Matthew 26:39.

Jesus asked, yet accepted His Father's will!

Danbo59 said...

Some would say, "Show me miracles...."

To this I would respond, "Then Abraham said, 'If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.'" -- Lk 16:31.

'Nuff said.

Anonymous said...

"a) My plan is to retire when I am 65.
b) Tomorrow, my son begs me to lend him my car, whereas I planned to go down into Charlotte and do some shopping.
c) I relent and lend him the car.
d) My plan -- unchanged.
e) His "prayer" -- answered.

Ah, how simple the answers to those who think too hard of a question."

Ok, do you know how stupid this is?

The two items (your plan of retirement and your lending a car to your son) are totally unrelated.

Now if you argue that your God doesn't have specific plans and just a general goal like you assert in your argument, then this is another story. My assumption for "God's plan" was that he has everything figured out already. (As part of being omniscient.) But you seem to argue that this is not the case (that he is not omniscient).

Sincerely,
Iztok

Danbo59 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danbo59 said...

Iztok wrote, "Ok, do you know how stupid this is?"

No, I don't. Perhaps an expert can explain.

Anonymous said...

Bal blah blah. Your all out of touch with reality. I guess thats what happens when your parents don't allow you to think for yourself and brainwash you with this crap.

Danbo59 said...

Anonymous wrote, "Bal blah blah. Your [sic] all out of touch with reality. I guess thats [sic] what happens when your parents don't allow you to think for yourself and brainwash you with this c**p."

But at the same time as they brainwashed us with this c**p, they taught us how to use the word "you're" instead of "your" when you mean to say "you are." They also taught us to place an apostrophe in "that's" when you mean to say "that is." You take the good with the bad, anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Danbo, how is your plan of retirement in any correlation with you lending car to your son. Your plan did change as you didn't go shopping.

Sincerely,
Iztok

Anonymous said...

danbo, I hate to break in on your fun with Iztok, but he asked for proof of a miracle and I think i can give him one. I know he will have some kind of explanation, but I'll still give it a shot.

Iztok, A man is crippled with degenerative arthritis in his feet, knees and elbows, the worst part is that he can not walk. After years of medical treatment, from therapy to every medication you can think of, the doctors gave up and told him that he should face the fact that he would never walk again and would eventualy loose the use of his legs and arms altogether.

All of these facts are medicaly documented.

After about a year of intense pain and and the inability to walk. This man called for the elders of his church to come and lay hands on him and pray over him just as James chapter 5 says.

The very next morning this man, woke up and was perfectly whole again.

To this this day, no doctor can explain why. All exrays, MRI's, bone scans and all other test, show no signs that there was ever a problem to begin with.

I know this to be fact, because I am this man.

I don't know what it takes for some people to believe that miracles happen and prayers are answered but I agree with danbo when he says JUST LOOK AROUND YOU.

THE MIRACLES OF GOD ARE EVERYWHERE!!!

JED1013

pornstudent said...

JED1013,

It's more likely that you are a liar than that God healed you. Maybe you think it's worth lying so that people will be saved. Maybe you need a reason to believe. Maybe you don't want to disappoint the elders.

You tell your miracle as if it's a story. The melodrama sounds phony. The miracles such as the one you described aren't everywhere. When you say they are, you reveal that you are, at best, an exaggerator.

Danbo59 said...

Jed1013, don't let it bother you. Like I said before, a person could literally rise from the dead in front of some people and these people would persist in their disbelief.

As with Saul, sometimes it takes a personal "hello" from God to shake the cobwebs from a person's mind.

Anonymous said...

P-student, Why wuold you call someone a liar when you don't know them?

This is not something I would ever just make up. The fact is that, it happened.

You can choose to believe me or not, I realy don't care.

JED1013

I don't put my faith in you. I put my faith in God. I believe that He is who He says He is and that He will do what He says He will do.

God has never let me down, but every human that I have known, has.

So, you can go on thinking that there is no God and trusting in your self and those who tell you that's it's all about you.

As for me, I will trust and serve God alone and continue to believe in His miracles and His answers to prayer.

Anonymous said...

Danbo, it doesn't bother me, even a little.

I have more faith in God than they have in themselves.

I kenw when I posted my story that someone would fire something back like p-student did.

JED1013

Anonymous said...

I agree with pornstudent. The Bible and all its miracles are a bunch of fairytales.

Danbo59 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danbo59 said...

Previously written -- "I agree with pornstudent. The Bible and all its miracles are a bunch of fairytales."

Ah, the courage of conviction that is 'anonymous.' LOL.

pornstudent said...

JED1013,

I think it's "more likely that you are a liar..." There is a possibility that you are telling the truth. Besides, don't you think it's easier and less offending to call someone you don't know a liar than someone you know?

I once had the pastor of my church pray with me that my near-sightedness be healed. After the prayer I told people I was healed because I thought that by professing my faith I would be healed. There are many reasons to lie. Maybe you think that by telling people you are healed, you really will be healed.

It seems to me that someone who has had such a miracle happen to them as you have would be more honest in their comments. You give yourself away when you say stuff like, "You can choose to believe me or not, I really don't care." In some way you do care or you wouldn't have commented.

Anonymous said...

No, p-student I don't care if you believe me or not. I know what happened and it's not me trying to fool myself or anyone else.

On May 13, 1993 I was completly healed of arthritis that had gotten so bad that I was not able to walk. The xrays, MRI's and bone scans that were done by 5 different doctors confirmed what each one had said.
After I was healed the doctors did the same test and could find no signs of a problem.

Still today I can walk, run, jump, skip, what ever I want to do and there is no pain and no arthritis.

So, once again, choose to believe what you want.

As for me I will choose God every time.

JED1013

Anonymous said...

Instead of healing a blind man, why not eliminate blindness? Now I might find that a bit difficult to ignore.

Or spontaneously regenerating a lost limb?

See www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com for an interesting consideration of this question.

billy graham said...

My grandma said when she almost died (when she was younger) she saw the Virgin Mary. Do I believe her? Hell no - she was most likely hallucinating. It is all a bunch of crap and you are all a bunch of freaks.

Gamecock said...

Great blog as usual Jane. I take the C.S. Lewis position, i.e. that all good comes from God. Some people ask how is it that evil and suffering abound in the world as if some natural law would require the absence of same. I rejoice in the good. I trust that God knows what he is doing, and in any event, he gets to be God. Apparently, suffering is a necessary part of the process in transforming us into heavenly creatures that can live in eternity with God.

Anonymous said...

Does that include hating gays and other people who are considered "different"? Religious people are nothing but boring, intolerant freaks who love to pop out kids like pez-dispensers and then brainwash their children.

Jane Pope said...

Please keep your comments civil and do not insult other people who have posted.

Calling someone a liar or saying everyone here is a freak crosses the line.

You're welcome to state your own belief or lack of belief. You can state that you find someone else's statements troubling or difficult to accept. But insults are unacceptable.

I'm trying to avoid killing posts, so I appreciate your attention to this very simple rule.

Anonymous said...

The fact is religious people breed intolerance and hatred and you know it! And Charlotte is full of people like this!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

JED1013,

where can we see medical records of your claims?

Sincerely,
Iztok

Jane Pope said...

"...religious people breed intolerance and hatred?" Yes, sometimes. So do non-religious people sometimes.

That is not my approach to religion, and I am not unique. If a person hates, it is because he or she has twisted faith into something it was never intended to be.

pornstudent said...

JED1013 found his miracle vending machine in James 5:14-15, "Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well..."

What can our response be? Those who believe God is a vending machine will shout, "Praise God! Jesus is Lord!" Those of us who don't believe in this kind of God will think Jed is probably a liar of sorts or mentally ill. The believers are allowed to encourage one another and spread their faith while us nonbelievers are told to keep our opinions to ourselves.

Danbo59 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danbo59 said...

True Christians are taught to love those who persecute them. This, though, does not mean that we must tolerate the "actions" of those who oppose God. Intolerance of behavior is not the same as intolerance of people. And this is where the militant atheist, the militant homosexual, the militant pro-choice completely miss the boat.

True Christians are taught to treat sinners (just like themselves, because we are all sinners) with love, compassion and understanding; to accept them as children of God and our brothers an sisters.

But Christians are under no obligation to condone, tolerate or approve of atheism (or, in to many cases militant atheism; vicious attacks on people of faith), homosexuality or abortion. These acts are inherently immoral and evil.

Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery and told her "sin no more." He didn't tell her "It's OK, what you're doing." He despised the sin, forgave her and told her to move on!

Unfortunately, for the militant atheist, refusal to condone of or approve of immoral behavior equates to bigotry and hatred of the individual. Not so.

Pornstudent wrote, "The believers are allowed to encourage one another and spread their faith while us nonbelievers are told to keep our opinions to ourselves."

This is a perfect example of the militant atheist crying, "Woe is me." They are told not to make personal attacks on this board and they interpret this as an infringement of their right to free speech. Quite the contrary, they are just as welcome to profess what they believe as anyone else. But that doesn't satisfy them. They want the right to profess what they believe while shouting down the beliefs of others and calling them liars and such.

Pornstudent should read his own statement. Go ahead and encourage one another and attempt to spread your faith (or lack, thereof). I, for one, find little of what the militant atheist says on this board as "encouraging."

pornstudent said...

Danbo - "Christians are under no obligation to condone, tolerate or approve of atheism... homosexuality or abortion. These acts are inherently immoral and evil."

What if I said, "Atheists are under no obligation to condone, tolerate or approve of evangelicalism and the worshiping God. These acts are inherently delusional."

Anonymous said...

Iztok, If I were to give to you all of the information needed to prove my healing, you would still not believe. So what would be the point in telling you anything?

I think that I will now choose to believe that you and p-student and others like you don't even exist. There is no proof that you exist, no scientific evidence, no witnesses of your birth, no facts at all to prove that you are real.

When someone can prove to me that you do exist, then maybe, just maybe, I might believe. Otherwise all the words you write, all the facts you quote and the things you speak are just made up fairy-tales.

JED1013

pornstudent said...

JED1013 - "all the words you write... are just made up fairy-tales."

You are looking at them. They exist. There is some basis for reality.

pornstudent said...

Danbo and Jed,

I want you to be free to be as delusional as you want as long as you allow others to be free. I like that you're different than me.

To each their own. Different strokes for different folks. Live and let live. It takes all kinds.

Believers in freedom have clich├ęs, too.

Anonymous said...

p-student, You don't exist, someone made you up.

The words on this post were written by someone else and then they attached the user ID to make it look like you exist but you don't.

WOW! It's easy not to believe.

JED1013

pornstudent said...

Jed,
How sweet. You're acknowledging my existence.

Danbo59 said...

Pornstudent asked, "What if I said, 'Atheists are under no obligation to condone, tolerate or approve of evangelicalism and the worshiping God. These acts are inherently delusional.'"

I'd say, "Fine. You aren't under any obligation at all."

pornstudent said...

Danbo,
You wouldn't mind people picketing outside your church as you worship? You wouldn't care if Christians are arrested for distributing the Bible?

Danbo59 said...

Pornstudent lost me in writing, "You wouldn't mind people picketing outside your church as you worship? You wouldn't care if Christians are arrested for distributing the Bible?"

Well, you can't picket "on" private property, so you'd have to picket on the road outside the Church. Picket to your heart's content, my boy.

As for arresting Christians for distributing the Bible, has distributing the Bible been declared a crime recently? Did I miss something? Perhaps you can point me to the relevent statute. If not, your question has no merit.

You're, once again, trying to equate tolerance of action with tolerance of people -- an exercise in futility.

pornstudent said...

Danbo,

I asked "You wouldn't mind..." and "You wouldn't care..."; not whether the activities are against the law.

I'm asking about tolerating actions, such homosexuality, worshiping and handing out Bibles. I don't care what you worship or if you tell others about your faith. You said you won't tolerate homosexuality and atheism. Thought you might like to see how we differ in what we allow others to do and be.

Danbo59 said...

pornstudent, perhaps you didn't grasp the message --

1) I don't care if you picket a Church. Go ahead. Try not to get too lonely, though, because none of your atheists friends would waste their time.

2) Your 2nd question has no merit, as the situation cannot exist. If it were illegal to distribute Bibles or be Christian, you could arrest me first. Christians have suffered worse.

I don't propose arresting homosexuals, atheists or those who've had abortions. [See, these are people, not actions.]

If that doesn't clear it up for you, I cannot help you any further.

pornstudent said...

Danbo,
I got confused when you said you wouldn't tolerate some things. "Tolerate" usually means "to allow to be or to be done without prohibition or hindrance."

Danbo59 said...

Pornstudent, " I meant tolerate as in to put up with.

Anonymous said...

Who said those acts are immoral and evil? What the hell? People are born homosexual - that is who they are. Nobody chooses to be gay. Your evil because you spread your hatred of others around in the name of "God"!

And another thing? Why is it that Christians and religious people feel like they need to go out and "save" everyone? Why don't you mind your own business, you do your thing and we will do ours and the world would be a much more peaceful place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leave us alone, we don't want to be "saved"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danbo59 said...

Anonymous had the courage to write, "Who said those acts are immoral and evil?"

I think that was me.

Anonymous had the courage to write, "People are born homosexual - that is who they are. Nobody chooses to be gay."

Some people are born with a predisposition to alcoholism. That doesn't justify their actions.

Anonymous had the courage to write, "Your evil because you spread your hatred of others around in the name of "God"!"

I assume you meant to write "You're evil...." instead of "Your evil...."

Please, if you cannot make the distinction between Christians condemning actions/behavior (which is justifiable) as opposed to condemning people (which true Christians do not) refrain from commenting on this further since you argue from a misunderstanding of what has been posted here.

Anonymous had the courage to write, "Leave us alone, we don't want to be "saved"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Then, why are you here on this board? You won't find me posting on an atheism board.

Oh, and one more thing -- calm down!

Anonymous said...

"Iztok, If I were to give to you all of the information needed to prove my healing, you would still not believe. So what would be the point in telling you anything?"

All I ask is for medical records that can be validated. I have a religious family doctor that I trust would give me an honest answer once reviewing medical records (x-rays and other things).

From what you said you have medical records that are evidence of your miracle. However when asked you are unable to show them. Sounds to me like you are making things up. Either show the evidence (you claim you have medical records so there shouldn't be any problems there provided they can be validated they are in sequential order and that they are of the same person and that older records provide evidence of degenerative arthritis and newer one don't). So since you claim medical records exist to support your claims I'll be more then happy to accept (I would rely on my MD to look at them and tell me as I do not claim I can read x-ray or other records and he would be an expert, plus he is religious so if anything he would be biased towards you not towards me).

So where is the evidence?

Sincerely,
Iztok

pornstudent said...

Danbom,
Something's not making sense. Christians don't condemn people, God condemns people. Right? If God tells you homosexuals are condemned to Hell, why wouldn't you say homosexuals are condemned to Hell? I find it difficult to accept that you're being honest.

Danbo59 said...

pornstudent wrote, "Something's not making sense."

Correct. That would be you.

pornstudent wrote, "If God tells you homosexuals are condemned to Hell,...."

Where exactly is this written? Whay you need, pornstudent, is to become Biblestudent.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

"For man it [entering the kingdom of heaven] is impossible. But for God, nothing is impossible."

Nowhere in the Bible does it state, "Homosexuals are damned to hell." Nowhere.

pornstudent said...

Danbo,

I'm glad you don't think God condemns homosexuals. That's great!

Anyway, here are a couple of verses from the Bible where somebody's condemning homosexuals and a whole lot of other people, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

I thought you believed the Bible to be the literal word of God. Uh oh. Maybe you didn't know about this verse and now you're going to believe homosexuals are condemned. Now I'm really confused.

pornstudent said...

Danbo,
It's getting a little clearer. When I asked, "If God tells you homosexuals are condemned to Hell, why wouldn't you say homosexuals are condemned to Hell?" The only answer you could come up with is, "God doesn't condemn Homosexuals. Where in the Bible does it say that?" You do think many people are immoral and condemned to Hell. It's Biblical. What's your problem? You don't want to be seen as a bigot? Would you rather be seen as a liar as well? If you and God agree, why do you care what we think of you? Geez, you wonder why I don't believe your testimony. Get real.

Danbo59 said...

pornstudent, it is obvious that you have an inability to comprehend or that you are simply being obstinate in order to prolong a discussion. I didn't say homosexuals were immoral people. I said homosexuality is immoral -- the act.

pornstudent said, "...nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers...."

Have you never been guilty of any of these, pornstudent? I'm a sinner. I don't deserve Salvation. But I pray for fogiveness for my wicked acts (as opposed to beign a wicked person, which I am not) and trust in God's mercy, love and forgiveness.

Your very pseudonym and profile say you are a fan of pornography. Are you damned to Hell, pornstudent?

Which reminds me. Why would self-professed atheists like you and Iztok be interested in this blog? You won't find me visiting atheist boards starting an argument. In another post a user named "anaonymous" stated, "We don't want to be saved." Then why, exactly, are you here, I wonder?

Danbo59 said...

pornstudent wrote, "Get real."

I'll trade you! I'll "get real" if you "get lost."

"Goeth from the sight of the foolish man when you perceiveth not in him the words of wisdom."

Anonymous said...

JED1013, so where is medical evidence you claim you have of your miracle? Did it miraculously disappear?

Sincerely,
Iztok

Danbo59 said...

Jed1013:

It is an unfortunate fact of life that some people are just in it to be nasty. They look for fights where they have no interest or business. We have to pray for their healing, as well as our own.

Like I said in the other blog post, imagine the celebration when these lost sheep return to the flock -- and they will for the mercy of God.

Anonymous said...

Danbo said: "Jed1013:

It is an unfortunate fact of life that some people are just in it to be nasty. They look for fights where they have no interest or business."

So Danbo, what do you think about Jed1013's claim that he has medical evidence of alleged miracle then not backing up his claim? Is he a fraud?

Sincerely,
Iztok

Danbo59 said...

"So Danbo, what do you think about Jed1013's claim that he has medical evidence of alleged miracle then not backing up his claim? Is he a fraud?

Sincerely,
Iztok"

Iztok, there is very little you say that is "sincere." I choose to ignore you.

It seems that, like Saul, God knocking you on your butt someday is the only way you'll come to faith.

Now, I am going back to prayer. Have a wonderful day.

Anonymous said...

Danbo, I think you also agree that he is a fraud but don't want to say so.

Sincerely,
Iztok

Danbo59 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danbo59 said...

Iztok wrote, "Danbo, I think you also agree that he is a fraud but don't want to say so."

Iztok, what you write has very little to do with reality.

Anonymous said...

"Iztok, what you write has very little to do with reality."

Apparently the poster who claimed miracles really had nothing to do with reality as he is unable to provide evidence for it. So for all practical purposes he is a fraud until he backs his claims up with some evidence.

You all know how OT treated those who cheat.

Sincerely,
Iztok

Dale said...

By entering a relationship with god via prayer, "we are transformed." Transformed into what? Is it better? Measurably so? Consistently so?

This sounds like a way of embracing the slot machine metaphor by fudging the terms.

To me, the fundamental question of the slot machine is: is this a good way to get money (i.e. return on investment)? The answer is, of course, no.

Playing the slot machine for money and re-labeling this activity as a "forging a relationship with the slot machine" is still a bad way to get money, and artless to boot.