I recently caught the new Indiana Jones movie. It was on the whole what I expected: mindless fun with enjoyable characters. One line of dialogue, though, broke through the escapism, perhaps because it hit uncomfortably close to home for someone of my age.
The university dean tells a graying Indy, "We seem to have reached the age where life stops giving us things and starts taking them away."
That's how it seems sometimes as age begins to claim our agility, our memory, our energy and, most painfully, our family and friends. The sense of loss can be overwhelming.
I think often of how difficult it must be for my parents, both in their 80s, who have buried their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and many of their close friends. Much that has anchored their lives is slipping away.
So part of the spiritual journey of middle-age and older involves letting go -- not only letting go gracefully of the things and people we lose, but letting go of fear of further loss. It starts with gratitude for what remains in our lives, and matures into gratitude even for the empty spaces that once were filled.
Most of all, it requires trust that even if all is taken from us, life endures and God is good. Then we can live richly, whatever our circumstances.
Later in the film, Professor Oxley says, "How much of human life is lost in waiting?"
Or in fear? Or in clinging?
It's impossible to accept the gifts of one season or one age if you are desperately trying to reclaim the one that has passed.
How has aging affected your spirituality? Comments welcome.
244 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 244 of 244 Newer› Newest»"personal experience isn't evidence?"
http://mnatheists.org/content/view/64/1/
(6) “Revelations” of One’s Own (Personal Testimony, Feelings, “Open Heart”)
This is when you are personally having the revelation or feeling that a god exists. Though you may be sincere, and even if a god really does exist, a feeling is not proof, either for you or for someone else. It will do no good to ask atheists to “open our hearts and accept Jesus” (or any other deity). If we were to set aside our skepticism, we might indeed have an inspirational experience. But this would be an emotional experience and we’d have no way to verify if a god was really speaking to us or if we were just hallucinating. Many atheists have stories of how wonderful it felt to lose their belief in gods. As with religion, this is not proof that atheism is true.
"I wouldn't put it past Iztok to concoct a daughter (or stepdaughter) if it'd help him appear to prove a point that he, himself, doesn't believe."
Danbo, not all of us are so versed in concoctions as you Christians are. You are projecting what you would do onto me.
"I refuse to believe you have a daughter."
See the difference? I don't refuse to believe there is God. There is just no evidence for me to believe. If you would provide me with as much evidence as I have for my daughter I would accept it.
Major difference between how religious people and atheists operate. We are accepting of the facts.
Iztok,
I don’t understand the point of you and we having this dialog, at least not in this blog. Can you please provide the names of atheist blogs that love to carry on pointless arguments with Christians, Jews, Muslims and others? Maybe we can all meet there.
You keep saying you are here because you subscribe to the Charlotte Observer, and that this is an Observer forum, but I didn’t realize that justifies your constant intervention and disruption. The Observer must have atheists on a different subscription plan than mine. Mine doesn’t say anything about me being necessarily subscribed to this blog, much as less mandating anyone’s inappropriate access to it. You need to find a more “logical” excuse.
God operates on His terms, not on human terms. He is in control, not you. All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm. God doesn’t use them to reach us. Your human arguments, no matter how hard you humanly labor to construct them, will never keep us from personally experiencing God. He doesn't require direct observation to be seen, heard and understood. Therefore your attempts to dissuade us – or whatever it is you hope to accomplish here – with human logic is absurd.
When you’ve experienced God, let us know. Then we can all have some meaningful discussions.
Anonymous, I understand that you are cowardly enough not even to introduce yourself with recognizable name (for me I use real name and it is really easy to identify). I am not hiding as many of you are. What you are saying is that you don't care for knowledge or reason because "you've experienced God". Yet you fail to provide any evidence.
By this account we can trust all those who "experienced" aliens and other beings. They are just as real as your God. Difference between you and them is that you think you are right and they are wrong. Why evidence and reason? Because this is the one and only way we actually learn.
"All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm."
Yeah another way of saying: "I don't have any explanations but I know I am right. Don't ask me for any explanations or evidence, you need to have faith."
However this "spiritual" world is the only time you operate like that, in reality when it comes to REAL life you don't. You require evidence and reason to survive. I don't see any "God is my co-pilot" sticker people having enough faith to drive with their eyes closed. Perhaps you should demonstrate us your faith and drive a week with your else closed. If you manage to do that I will believe you you have faith and it works if you don't then your faith is weak and it is just talk.
Happy to be alive?
Loser Letter #7
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MmFmMmY3NWQwYzg1MDRhYTBlNjI2OWVlYjU4ZmViNzg=&w=MA==
Don't any of you read your Bibles? The existence of God can be proven by the simple experiment described in First Kings 18:22-40. Just repeat it. And check out what you get to do to the heathen after you've put him in his place!
The level of discourse has degenerated to a disappointing level. Is that inevitable?
Is that not a repetitive theme throughout the history of civilization as regards differences in religious beliefs?
As long as some religions view life and afterlife as a zero sum game, with a definite right and wrong and the wrong suffering eternally for their refusal or inability to see the truth, should we expect anything else?
Bertrand
I see where Iztok is still trying to "logically" deconstruct an illogical God to "prove" He doesn't exist. Iztok just doesn't seem to understand the difference between God and humans.
He can believe in his daughter. I'll believe in my God.
gamecock is DeVine and says:
Scriptural temptation reveals Obama's contempt for U.S. armed forces
http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/story/gamecock/2008/06/27/scriptural_temptation_reveals_obama_s_contempt_for_u_s_armed_forces
Anonymous: "He can believe in his daughter. I'll believe in my God."
I don't believe in existence of my daughter for the simple fact one doesn't have to believe in something that is real.
I am glad you finally admitted that your God (as with any other god) is illogical (senseless).
Still anonymous coward however.
DeVine has little knowledge of history: "whose founders, while not all orthodox believers, nevertheless embraced the Judeo-Christian values of the Bible as superior to all values on Earth"
Most of our founding fathers were deists at best.
No, you still have it wrong. God is beyond the use of your human logic to decipher, define and know. He's illogical in the sense that He doesn't use or require human logic. He's GOD, not logic!
You have to have everything defined for you in black and white logic. You can't accept the illogical. You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it. You're human!
Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you. If you could just let go of the logic once in awhile, you might become a much happier person with God.
And maybe you'll finally learn that this blog isn't about you, or who you are, or who I am. It's about God.
Anonymous: "doesn't use or require human logic"
There is no such thing as human logic. There is just logic. Logic is no different for humans as it is for aliens or animals or anything else. This "human logic" is just used by those of you who really have no clue about it.
For example:
(& = logical AND operator, | logical OR operator)
A & B = C
0 & 0 = 0
0 & 1 = 0
1 & 0 = 0
1 & 1 = 1
A | B = C
0 | 0 = 0
0 | 1 = 1
1 | 1 = 1
1 | 1 = 1
This doesn't change for anyone. This is not just "human logic" this is logic.
"You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it."
I explained that already. By the same argument I could claim I have experience with Invisible Pink Unicorn thus she is real and you anonymous just can't grasp or understand it. It is utter nonsense. By your argument everyone on drugs experiences something thus it must be real.
"Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you"
Shortcomings of what? I am human with my capabilities and limitations. No shortcomings. Honestly I don't care even if God exists if he would love me. Apparently his vanity is more important to him then anything else.
"It's about God."
Vanity again. I rest my case.
I thank God for giving me the perfect argument to counter the atheist Izcrok...er, Iztok. I call it Jehovah's Jab, and have added the following math to it since he seems to enjoy equations so much:
Life minus God = Nothing
Here's Jehovah's Jab again, since apparently he still doesn't understand it:
"No, you still have it wrong. God is beyond the use of your human logic (and math) to decipher, define and know. He's illogical in the sense that He doesn't use or require human logic. He's GOD, not logic!
You have to have everything defined for you in black and white logic. You can't accept the illogical. You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it. You're human!
Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you. If you could just let go of the logic once in awhile, you might become a much happier person with God.
And maybe you'll finally learn that this blog isn't about you, or who you are, or who I am. It's about God."
Iztok,
I ran your logic past our cat, since you claim logic is no different for humans as it is for animals or anything else. Muffy didn't think it made any sense, either. You won't find God with logic. Try faith.
Anonymous, I see you are still anonymous coward:
"Muffy didn't think it made any sense, either. You won't find God with logic. Try faith."
I see you are not only hearing voices in your head you even seem to have Dr. Doolittle complex and ability to talk to animals. Perhaps institution is in order.
Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof
Thanks but no thanks.
"You can't accept the illogical."
Neither can you anywhere else in real life. Your argument is just saying "anything goes". It simply says "I don't care I just follow what I've been told and I don't question". Perfect captive audience. No wonder so many in clergy get bye not only with saying stupid things but also with doing horrible things (like molesting children). No one questions what they do or say. Keep on drinking kool aid.
The IPU is disappointed that you all don't believe in her. She is waiting for you to open your hearts and accept her. She has prepared an invisible pink stable for your invisible pink souls and is patiently waiting for you.
No, Iztok, you still have it wrong. But don’t worry. I have plenty of patience.
The incongruity of your arguments is apparent to all who have found God. You’re trying to use a toothpick at a steak dinner. You’ve got the wrong utensil. Try faith.
God is beyond the use of your human logic (and math) to decipher, define and know. He's illogical in the sense that He doesn't use or require human logic. He's GOD, not logic!
You have to have everything defined for you in black and white logic. You can't accept the illogical. You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it. You're human!
Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you. If you could just let go of the logic once in awhile, you might become a much happier person with God.
And maybe you'll finally learn that this blog isn't about you, or who you are, or who I am. It's about God.
Anonymous: Substitute God with Invisible Pink Unicorn or Flying Spaghetti Monster and tell me if still makes sense what you've wrote.
I'm back in town now and will resume posting when time and other Observer duties permit.
I'm disappointed, though not surprised, to see that personal attacks have persisted in my absence. Please stop it now. Surely we can debate ideas without insulting one another.
Atheists -- The spritual equivalent of a little child holding his breath until the child gets what they want from their parents.
Danbo: Nice ad hominem attack.
No matter how long (decades or sometimes centuries RCC realizes its wrongs. Might take longer then your lifetime however: Eppur si muove!
You can't stop knowledge by burning books anymore. (Another practice religion did well in the past.)
Iztok, are you STILL here?
I didn't know a definition was, by definition, an ad hominem attack. Even if it were, that doesn't mean that it isn't factual.
I stand by what I said.
Iztok, I tried substituting your Invisible Pink Monster and Flying Spaghetti Monster for God. They just don't fit. Obviously God is not one of your creations.
You need to work on your puzzle.
You still have it wrong.
The incongruity of your arguments is apparent to all who have found God. You’re trying to use a toothpick at a steak dinner. You’ve got the wrong utensil. Try faith.
God is beyond the use of your human logic (and math) to decipher, define and know. He's illogical in the sense that He doesn't use or require human logic. He's GOD, not logic!
You have to have everything defined for you in black and white logic. You can't accept the illogical. You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it. You're human!
Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you. If you could just let go of the logic once in awhile, you might become a much happier person with God.
And maybe you'll finally learn that this blog isn't about you, or who you are, or who I am. It's about God.
amen Jane and welcome back
Danbo: "I didn't know a definition was, by definition, an ad hominem attack. Even if it were, that doesn't mean that it isn't factual."
No it is not factual. You know it is not and all it is it is ad hominem attack.
It is not that atheists hold their breath to get what we want. It is other way around. It is religious who try to hold on to their ideas that have no backing in reality.
Anonymous: Again, you do not back up your claims with any facts. The mere fact that you are alive shows that you don't live the rest of your life in correspondence with your "thinking" presented here. If you would truly have faith you would sit behind the wheel today and drive with your eyes closed depending on faith alone. The mere fact that you don't drive with eyes closed and on faith is the fact that you truly don't have faith as you claim.
Iztok, your very presence here, on a blog devoted to religious belief, is proof positive that you and your ilk are exactly what I said you are -- "children" holding their breath; having a tantrum until their parent (God) gives in to them and gives them what they want.
That's why you're here! Unlike the faithful, who are here to share their beliefs with others, you're here because you need an audience. A child will never throw a tantrum without an audience. No performer wants to play to an empty house.
Your need for attention is as transparent as Saran Wrap.
We all see the conflict within you. "Let go of your hate!" [Star Wars tie-in, there.]
Iztok,
God is a fact to me and nine out of ten others.
You need to follow Jane's advice and take a break. Use it to take a good long look at God's creation.
The incongruity of your arguments is apparent to all who have found God. You have confused faith in human abilities (driving blindfolded) with faith in God. As a child of God, He had granted you the freedom to choose (i.e., to drive blindfolded), or to choose His will for you.
In this blog, you’re still trying to use a toothpick to pick apart a steak dinner. You’ve got the wrong utensil. Try faith.
God is beyond the use of your human logic (and math) to decipher, define and know. He's illogical in the sense that He doesn't use or require human logic. He's GOD, not logic!
If you have to have everything defined for you in black and white logic, you can't accept the illogical. You even have the human gall to tell other humans that their personal experience with God is invalid just because you can't physically grasp or understand it. You're human!
Despite your human shortcomings, God still loves you. If you could just let go of the logic once in awhile, you might become a much happier person with God.
And maybe you'll finally learn that this blog isn't about you, or who you are, or who I am. It's about God.
Anonymois: "God is a fact to me and nine out of ten others."
So? This supposed to be some evidence? Your numbers are valid only in US. As far rest of the world more people disagree with you on your religious belief then agree. In either case it does not constitute any evidence. Based on that "fact" our planet was flat once. (Your Bible still says it is circle vs. sphere anyway.)
Iztok drones on, "Your Bible still says it is circle vs. sphere anyway."
More regurgitated claptrap from the atheists' playbook. Not an original thought between them all.
Danbo: Still doesn't make it false statement. It does say circle, doesn't it? (Yes even in Hebrew there is a word for sphere.)
No, you still can't get it right.
For one thing, it isn't my Bible. It's God's Bible.
Second, Do the world's Muslims believe in God? Do the world's Jews believe in God? Do other religions believe in deities supreme beings? Darn tootin' they do. And it makes no difference if their God isn't a mirror match to mine. They believe. I believe. You don't. You lose.
God operates on His terms, not on human terms. He is in control, not you. All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm. God doesn’t use them to reach us. Your human arguments, no matter how hard you humanly labor to construct them, will never keep us from personally experiencing God. He doesn't require direct observation to be seen, heard and understood. Therefore your attempts to dissuade us – or whatever it is you hope to accomplish here – with human logic is absurd.
When you’ve experienced God, let us know. Then we can all have some meaningful discussions.
Deja vu?
anonymous: "God doesn’t use them to reach us."
Or in other words you are clueless and just believe what you are told and require no evidence or reasoning. Shame you don't apply the same "reasoning" to the rest of your life.
Yes many believe in different gods and things. That alone should be enough for you to see that at maximum one is right and if you deduct correctly it is more reasonable to assume no one is right there.
Even if 90% of human population would believe (and does not) in any sort of god it wouldn't be any evidence. As stated people once believed Earth was flat with much greater passion then now yet they were wrong. They've burnt people at the stake that were right. Danbo's church has great historical practice with that. And he continues to try to hush down reason in similar fashion as his church once burnt books that didn't agree with their claims. Talibans did the same when they've ruled.
No, you still can't get it right.
For one thing, it isn't my Bible. It's God's Bible.
Second, Do the world's Muslims believe in God? Do the world's Jews believe in God? Do other religions believe in deities supreme beings? Darn tootin' they do. And it makes no difference if their God isn't a mirror match to mine. They believe. I believe. You don't. You lose.
God operates on His terms, not on human terms. He is in control, not you. All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm. God doesn’t use them to reach us. Your human arguments, no matter how hard you humanly labor to construct them, will never keep us from personally experiencing God. He doesn't require direct observation to be seen, heard and understood. Therefore your attempts to dissuade us – or whatever it is you hope to accomplish here – with human logic is absurd.
When you’ve experienced God, let us know. Then we can all have some meaningful discussions.
Anonymous: You repeat same old yet again provide no evidence to support your claims. The "when you experience God let us know" is especially lame as you are actually blaming the victim because your so called God doesn't make itself known to people.
Again, it is not "human logic" it is just logic. It is nothing special that would apply to humans only. Just like 1+1=2 is not "human math".
Anonymous: "God doesn’t use them to reach us."
So please explain (with some facts) how do you know that?
How are we sure you are not making things up? Can you show the difference between this and things just plainly made up? If you can't provide real evidence then why claim you know?
Have you experienced God yet? When you’ve experienced God, let those of us who believe know. Then we can all have some meaningful discussions in this blog.
Meanwhile, all you have to remember is this:
God operates on His terms, not on human terms. He is in control, not you. All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm. God doesn’t use them to reach us.
Your human arguments, no matter how hard you humanly labor to construct them, will never keep us from personally experiencing God. He doesn't require direct observation to be seen, heard and understood.
"God operates on His terms, not on human terms. He is in control, not you. All your human logic, reasoning, deductions, mathematics, theorems, razors, wagers and what not hold no sway in God’s spiritual realm."
How do you know that?
You offer no explanations for your statements.
Izzie wrote, "How do you know that?
You offer no explanations for your statements."
Nor do you, Izzie.
Danbo: I wasn't the one making such claims did I? Last time I've checked the onus is on the person who makes claims to back them up.
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